Aggressive dogs in class

[mtoy]

How aggressive is too aggressive for an obedience training class? I mentioned before how a dog bit another in our rally class because their paths crossed during heeling practice. Yesterday another incident happened (before I arrived so I didn't see it) with that same dog. When I arrived the owner gave me a warning to stay away because "this dog doesn't like other dogs" (well duh, I already knew that). The mood was very tense.

During the class special care needs to be taken to avoid this dog. It's not like rally is a team or contact sport, and we're all on leash, but it's a hassle and doesn't lend itself to what is supposed to be a more fun class. All the other dogs can stand next to each other without incident. The prerequisite for the class is CGC and apparently this dog took that a year ago but then the dog wasn't exposed to other dogs since that time.

It's not like this dog is just a "lunger", we have a couple of those in class and they seem pretty harmless. This dog attacks. I know very well that if I took Millie to a class like this she would most likely bite in fear if a dog larger than her came into her space. So she doesn't go to class. So the question is, does this dog belong in class?

[manymuddypaws]

It is a hard call. As an instructor I will not put the rest of class in jeopardy. It is the owner of the dog and the instructors responsibility to make the best choice for everyone involved. If a dog actually made contact and bit another dog (broke skin) then the dog would not be allowed back. Period. It would have to take a private set of classes before coming back into a group of dogs.

I have had reactive dogs in general classes with good success. They need their space, they get their own corner of the room and do well. There is nothing wrong with that. I make it a point however not to spend more time with the reactive dog than with the rest of the class. If the dog needs more attention than everyone else it is in the wrong class.

[mtoy]

The dog broke skin on another dog the first day of class. I don't know about yesterday. The instructors don't give it more attention. If it were my dog that bit another we would have left.

[Bobbie]

I think I'd quit the class if a dog actually bit and was not asked to leave. For one thing, it means the owner is not vigilant enough, and that means the owner could let her guard down and drop the leash. Not worth it. Go tell the instructors that you are not going to stay in the class because of that dog, and request that they return your fees. You have a right to keep your dog safe.

We had a very reactive dog in our agility class but the owner is hyper-vigilant. She keeps her dog in the car until his turn, then everyone else is warned to keep their own dogs out of the way. I don't even like that, but I can live with it. In your case the owner is not careful enough, so I would not put up with it.

[manymuddypaws]

Before threatening to quit I think you should talk to the instructor about your concerns. As an owner of a reactive dog I know that the owner of the dog is probably as frustrated with the dogs behaviour as everyone else is. It is not easy to have a dog like that- but the owner needs to step up and admit that either the class isn't right for her dog, or request private lessons.

I can't believe the dog actually broke skin and didn't get booted!!!! That is pretty irresponsible of the instructor.

[sutulu]

I was actually in that same position early on in basic agility. My sitter's dog had class on a different night than Tucker. She had a conflict so I volunteered to take her dog to class for her.

So I got Charlie to class and this Rottweiler went after another dog early in the class, the "teeny bopper" owners giggled and apologized and not much was said. Later in the class the rottie and Charlie made eye contact and lots of growling and lunging took place. I made sure Charlie's eyes didn't meet the rotties' for the rest of class. Towards the end of class, the rottie got away from the owner and came right for Charlie. He bit Charlie just above the tail, no blood but lots of rottie slobber.

Once again, the ownered giggled and apologized. it was the end of class, clearly the instructor nor the owneres were going to do anything about it, so I took Charlie out of the building and stood outside the window to hear the wrap up of class then left.

When I took Charlie home to my sitter's I told her - if it were me - either the Rottie would go or I would.

And I told the instructor via an E mail that I would not bring my dog to that class if that dog was allowed to continue.

Like your class, basic obedience is a pre requisite. Clearly this dog had no training and what was even more obvious and dangerous, was that the owners/handlers didn't have a clue.

So low and behold, the next week when I took Tucker to his class, the first dog that the rottie went after had changed into our class as had my puppy sitter. Niether of them would stay in the class with the Rottie.

In the end, the instructor finally told the couple with the rottie that they had to take him our of class and gave them a credit to use for an obedience class the next session.

Never saw the dog or the couple again.

[Lauren]

I see no problem with having aggressive/reactive dogs in class as long as they are under control.
I used to take my 97 pound St. Bernard/Collie mix to general classes and she was DA, but I only did this because I knew I was in complete control of her at all times. Whenever we started a new class the instructor would make a general announcement to the class that Mia was DA and that under no circumstances were dogs allowed to run up on her. When we did long down/stays, etc. we would move off to the side so that is a dog broke his/her stay we would not have to worry about them coming up to Mia.
A picture of Mia, just because I can.
RIP Mia.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/NerualSSDD/Horses/Mia.jpg

There is a reactive GSD in my flyball class, but I am completely fine with it because my trainers are more than competant when it comes to keeping everybody safe during class.

[taflar]

Why don't you suggest to the instructor that this dog be required to wear a muzzle during class? (Basket type, prevents biting but not panting.)

Peggy

[Lauren]

Why don't you suggest to the instructor that this dog be required to wear a muzzle during class?
Sometimes muzzles can just increase the issue, the dog feels as though they have lost a means of defending themselves, which they have, and it can make everything worse. It did with Mia.

[Jespah]

I think that muzzles can have vary different effects on different dogs. Rupert's behaviourist suggested it could decrease his bite inhibition - because he physically couldn't - and make him less aggressive. I think it truly depends on that specific dog - it may be a crap shoot testing it though.

[Jaxerspal]

I don't believe I would analyse the situation too much, I'd just leave. Safety is most important to me, and I certainly would not need anymore tension in my life. It's pretty black and white for me.

[CorgiMum]

Before threatening to quit I think you should talk to the instructor about your concerns.

I can't believe the dog actually broke skin and didn't get booted!!!! That is pretty irresponsible of the instructor.

If it were me, I would not continue taking classes from an instructor that I felt put one of mine, or anyone else's dog in jeopardy. I truly believe that the safety of the dogs and the owners is the first and most important part of any training class.

And as for titles, well Dyl Bob has a few novice ones, but I have seen some very titled dogs be a danger. Case in point, when Monty was very young we took her to a beginer's agility class, the instructor had a BC that had been sent to England to be trained. The dog attacked Monty and she came close to having her eye severely damaged.

If an instructor cannot provide my dog and myself a safe environment in which to learn & have fun in, we just aren't there. Training should be fun for the dog & the handler. If it's not, what's the point? IMO.

[taflar]

Sometimes muzzles can just increase the issue, the dog feels as though they have lost a means of defending themselves, which they have, and it can make everything worse. It did with Mia.

Usually a dog won't fight if they think they can't win. So for most dogs putting a muzzle on them takes their power away and they settle down.

In this case, I think it would be worth a try. If it doesn't work then the dog needs to have private lessons. A whole class should not be put in danger of being bitten.

Peggy

[Fluffypants]

That would make me uncomfortable. I think I would look for another class. We have had reactive dogs in a few of my classes, but they are always kept separated from the rest of the group, and everyone is well aware of them at all times. The fact that an incident like this happened in 2 of your classes so far is very troubling for me, and suggests (to ME) that neither the owner nor the trainer is taking the problem seriously.