Need an opinion

[breezy]

Setting your obvious love for corgi's aside, I need some advice. I know almost nothing about agility, except I like to watch it. My daughter is 10 and wants to get an agility dog. Puppy. We are thinking maybe for her birthday in May. I just don't have the ability to deal with a pup until after my cancer treatments are all over. Anyway . ..


I would love another corgi. Or a border collie/corgi cross. I saw two of these last weekend and they are totally adorable!! These two looked just like a corgi in size and shape, but had a few more markings of a border collie. Anyway, I digress. My hubby is thinking a mini australian shepherd.

Those of you in the know . . . what do I need to be looking for in an agility puppy? What breed would you recommend for a beginner. What is easier to train? What steps do I need to take to train a pup (I'm thinking obedience and 4-h the first year, agility after that). What age can they start agility training? HELP!!! +WUBCLUB+

[sutulu]

I was told that Corgis shouldn't start jumping until they are at least a year old and have actually heard older. I started mine at about 14 months.

From my basic experience in agility....

Shelties are very smart and very FAST! Great control for the most part but lots of barking.

I'll duck after I say this but IMO, Aussies can be very good but many of them are very difficult to control. One trainer explained it to a handler that the Aussie was thinking so hard, if the handler made the slightest indication that she was confused or off course, the Aussie could tell and would get confused and stressed. This manifested in the dog jumping at and barking at the handler. I see that with Aussies more than any other breed.

Lulu does this to me and it makes me crazy. Tucker is very forgiving, he just goes with the flow.

IMO Corgis and Shelties are much more forgiving ... for lack of better description.

That's my $.02 and I will defer to other who have more experience.

[Bobbie]

What I recommend is going to watch some more agility trials, and talking to the owners of dogs your daughter likes. See what they are like at home, how they are to train, how friendly they are with people and dogs. You can also find out what breeder they got their dog from, if they got it as a puppy. Keep notes, and you'll probably figure out the breed and where to get one that will be good in agility.

If your dog now can do agility, it might be good to have your daughter start training it, even if you aren't likely to do agility with your dog. Most trainers make a lot of mistakes with the first dog! It might be nice if that dog isn't her puppy. Or you might find someone who will let your child handle their dog (or one of their dogs) in agility for some experience.

You can start a lot of agility foundation training with puppies... let them play on a wobble board, teach come and wait and watch me, and so on. Some agility schools even have puppy classes. But serious training, with weaves and jumping, should wait, how long depends on the puppy's breed and growth rate, but pretty much until the puppy is full grown.

The border collie/corgi cross might be a great agility dog, but remember when you get a mix it gets a mixture of traits from each parent. One dog in the litter might get the border collie drive and corgi body, and another the BC body and corgi silliness, and what you want is the puppy with the BC body (but smaller) and lots of smarts and drive but not as much as a full BC... its hard to know what you are going to get in a mixed breed litter, and you aren't going to find a knowledgable breeder to help you choose.

[Jaxerspal]

I've seen what Susan mentioned in her post, in the agility classes we've been to. Aussies need excellent handlers because they are so good at agility, but they can also be so very demanding.

Now corgis on the other hand, just as Susan says, corgis are more forgiving.

When I started with Jax in agility, the instructor told me she had good news and bad news about corgis and agility. She said herding dogs do the best in agility, but th bad news was that corgis (especially cardigans) were often the worst. Now Jax has never been great at it, but then I don't pursue it that hard either, but we sure have a good time at it when we do, and that's all that really matters.

Remember too, that when dog isn't doing agility, he'll want to do something, so pick one that will be happy with the amount of stimulation you're able to provide. But whatever breed you choose, just get out there and do it! You'll both win. :CUTE:

[2CrazyCorgis]

I am biased, but I think Corgis are awesome agility dogs. I think there are lots of mutts who could be great agility dogs, but I would't recommend a "designer dog" cross like a Border Corgi. You could end up getting the worst traits of both breeds. If you want a mixed breed dog, rescue is the way to go. There are so many awesome dogs just waiting for a chance. If you want a purebred Corgi, rescue can still be a great option.

[manymuddypaws]

Being an owner of a Border Collie/Corgi cross I would most definitely NOT reccomend one for your daughter. Border Collies can be sensitive, mushy and moody. Combine that with the bossiness of a corgi, the "bite" factor, and their intensity and you have a dog like mine- Vito is a great little dog but not one that I trust around kids, strangers, he is my most likely to bite dog- by no fault of his own- he just has a crappy temperament. He is a good boy though- likes to learn, but can be hard to motivate (which is strange and not typical of either breed)

And of course I would NEVER reccomend going out and buying a specific type of mixed breed dogs- you are only supporting the newest fad- one that really has no good reason to be done. I got Vito as a rescue- he was turned over when as a puppy he bit a little boy quite severely.

Now as for what breed can do agility- any. Honestly. Don't pick a breed based on agility alone as don't forget you will be the one to have to take care, train and live with the dog for 14 years. Corgi's are great- of course :o) But if your daughter is a softy, then a corgi may walk all over her! You may want to look into breeds that appeal to your daughter- personality wise- rather than looks. There are lots of mini-aussies around- the ones I have seen have been nice dogs- a little barky, and some can be a little hard to focus but it depends on the quality of the breeding. All dogs can do agility- we have Bernese Mountain Dogs, Vizslas, Shelties, Border Collies, Aussies etc. and they all do as well as they are trained! So I would really start looking into breeds and considering your daughters temperament as well as that of the puppy!

As for what to look for in a puppy- I myself want the most outgoing, bossy, little sucker in the litter. :o) But that's just me. Again- if this is going to be your daughters dog then it would be best to find a dog suited to her personality- usually a middle of the road puppy- brave, but not too bold. Friendly, but not bossy. I would want a puppy who would fetch a toy, recover from loud noises and be curious about me and what I was doing. Conformation is also pretty important- if you think your daughter is going to be serious about agility then you will need a dog that can stand up physically to the stress of agility.

There are lots of books out there- and articles that will help you to understand more about how/why to pick a specific type of puppy.

Training wise, Puppy classes are the best first step, your training school will have loads of classes and things that you can do while your pup is still growing- Agility has really evolved in the last few years- you can do a TON of agility training with no equipment- and little stress on a young pups body.

I would suggest that you find a trainer near you- and go watch a few classes, talk to her, get her opinion and just do lots and lots of research!

[disraeli ears]

I totally agree with lots of research and finding a dog that matches your daughter's personality. I also agree that trying to find a "Border Corgi" is a bad idea - as mentioned, you can't guarantee the mix of traits!

I will put in my $.02 about border collies, having lived with 2 of them. They are great dogs - but they are intense! They can get obsessive about things (especially balls, for some reason - haha) and get destructive if they do not have the proper stimulation. My Mom's more intense border collie, Bandit, would actually eat through sheet rock on the walls of the house if she was feeling frustrated or bored. :SHOCKED: She could also be moody towards the other dogs (though she was a complete sweetheart to us) and always manipulated us into giving her the most attention. From what I hear, Aussies are very much like this, too. They are smart boogers, but they need lots of attention! And stimulation! Or they will make their own "stimulation" and end up with attention, though it won't be good... :LAUGH:

ETA: And remember a "mini" Australian shepherd is not a different breed. It's just an Aussie that has been bred for size - they have the same personality traits.

[Jespah]

Why don't you consider having your daughter start with Cowgirl? She's only 4 right? (Cowgirl - not your daughter :SMILE:) It would be a good way of knowing whether or not your daughter will enjoy doing this and if a Corgi is the way to go. She could start just doing it for fun. The breeder I got Rupe from started with Corgis so his children could do agility with them through the 4H program.

[mtoy]

I'm far from an expert and only learning myself...but at the training facilities we've been to there are all breeds doing agility. Tiny little things, big dogs, mixed breeds, old, young (ok, not too young), and all different types..working, herding, froo-froo...

If your daughter is 10 she may be interested in agility this year and something else next year (I have 2 kids, I know how they are), so I would focus on what kind of dog would be the best pet for her and the family, and what kind would get along with what you have now. Then she can train it, go into agility, whatever.

We've been through soccer, scouts, tennis, parakeets, guitars, violins, electronics, skiing, hockey, basketball, baseball, bowling, fencing, karate, cooking, etc.... don't know what's next...hope I'll be ready for it...

[breezy]

Why don't you consider having your daughter start with Cowgirl? She's only 4 right? (Cowgirl - not your daughter :SMILE:) It would be a good way of knowing whether or not your daughter will enjoy doing this and if a Corgi is the way to go. She could start just doing it for fun. The breeder I got Rupe from started with Corgis so his children could do agility with them through the 4H program.

Cowgirl is NOT an agility dog. First, she's scared of every noise and movement made anywhere near her. She also hasn't ever done really well around other dogs, especially ones that bark. I have considered trying a couple of those free 1 hour training things at Petco for them (Laura and Cowgirl) to try to see if she'd warm up to it. Can I start training for agility at 4, almost 5???

My daughter is definately an animal fan, has always been, and I expect always will be. She's never waivered from her love of dogs and everything else with 4 legs. But she's been talking about agility and 4-H for a couple of years now. We were going to start her with Sassy this spring, but I was diagnosed with this stupid cancer and then Sassy died. . . so everything has just been drug out another year. I'll look into some of these training things after I get a bit better (since I'll have to be the one that takes her to them).

We are going to an agility event late in September (did I already mention that???) and we'll be sure to talk to some of the owners there.